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Talk:Persona (concept)
Persona summoned on Earth This may sound like a stupid question,but...in Persona 4 Is it possible for Persona to be summoned on earth? So far,they only summoned them in the TV world.... Sting! TenRyuoh! 04:00, January 11, 2011 (UTC) :So far as I remember they never did summon Persona in the real world. Well, maybe except during that part with the disco ball up in the sky and the town below them. BLUER一番 12:39, January 11, 2011 (UTC) : : Another possibly stupid question; Are the persona sentient? Like,can they think for themselves? User:GohanRULEZ|Sting! TenRyuoh!]] 02:43, January 12, 2011 (UTC) :Hard question. Even if they are, Personas rarely communicate with their user outside of a greeting upon creation. However, in the first game, there are some cases where a Persona will come out automatically during a negotiation to convince a demon of a certain type that they should give their spell cards to the player.(Off the top of my head I can think of Jack Frost and Pyro Jack being able to do this for each other, but I think I ran into at least one other case) Aside from that, the only Personas that have shown to be able to take any sort of action without their user summoning and commanding them that I can think of are Nyarlathotep, the Snow Queen bosses (Hypnos, Nemesis, Thanatos, and the Night Queen), and Strega's Personas; but all of those may be special cases.--Otherarrow 13:04, January 12, 2011 (UTC) ::I had the same question once about persona being able to think for themselves until I read Carl Jung's theories. Honestly the Persona series seems to be based on Carl Jung's theories of shadows and Archtypes. Jung says that the archetypes and shadows are representations of the persons unconcious and Jung states that everyone is connected to each in dreams and Jung states that dream is where you can see shadows and visions (Deja vu). The True Final Boss on P4 says that man kind desired an end and the midnight channel BUT they desired it in their unconscious (because no one directly said end it now) and the midnight channel and TV are actually a representation of the unconscious or aka a Dream. And since Jung states you can see shadows in a Dream you can also interact with them and when you over come something that is targeted to yourself it usually means you gain a Persona (or changed it) which is a mental defense that helps us hide our flaws. But the odd part is the Persona in P4 in the TV world which is like I said a place for the unconscious and since they defeated something they had no control over they tamed it and now gain full control. Which raises question "since the enemies in the TV world are other people's shadows would they be able to use a persona if they entered a TV world after another defeated it?" The answer would be no since after a person on Persona 4 beats their shadow they accept the truth and some else who didnt accept it doesnt gain the control. In short the answer is the persona do not have a free will or think for themselves instead the user has all the control. And with the first question about persona being used outside in the real world, It would be impossible since they are not in a world of the unconsious (not sure if this is true but I will beleive maybe until proven other wise). I hope this helps it may seem like a lot of information but if none of it makes sense let me know and I will rewrite it to make sense. (But the answer becomes simple after you studied Carl Jung's works) Fun fact too, the best representation of Persona is actually Mythological figures! Zelros... Insert Bear pun here... I am not here right now please leave a message| 19:13, January 12, 2011 (UTC) :Not really story-based, but I've been under the impression that they do have at least some sort of conscious or feeling, even if they aren't in control. I...I honestly forgot if they do in Persona 4, but I remember at least in Persona 3 they did have a short line of dialogue when they were fused, and they do show a reaction when you deny skill-evolution. Not really in-depth or based around the actual story, but that's how I see it. ~ FangzV' ([[User_Talk:FangzV | Flame at me ''here]]) as said on 19:58, January 12, 2011 (UTC)' : :':: 'I guess the answer I came up with would only seem to apply to Persona 4 (maybe the Answer on P3 FES) and I forgot about the skill change with the "pain". I can't make any connections with my above statement so much except for the shadows and the end of Persona 3 with the whole unconcoius will to end it all (but the question turns to summoning outside of the dark hour the answer could be the same). Thanks for reminding me on the skill change part , the only counter I can come up with is to say its the part of the shadow that is in pain but even then it doesn't make a lot of sense.Zelros... Insert Bear pun here... I am not here right now please leave a message| 20:07, January 12, 2011 (UTC) I want to thank everyone who answered my stupid questions. And I feel the need to tell you my reasons for asking. Some time soon(I have no idea when)I plan on writing a Persona 4 Fanfiction revolving around Izanami's return. The antagonist are Persona users(Like Souji and his friends)except,they can summon their persona on earth thought unknown means... I'm new to the Persona/SMT fanbase,so I didn't know much about how Personas work. Again,thank you all. Sting! TenRyuoh! 09:14, January 14, 2011 (UTC) "The Potential" In Persona3, what is the conditions for someone develop "The Potential"? :The specifics are never explained, although I do feel it is related to how in the original Persona, Philemon said that it was rare for someone to remember their own name (and thus, maintain their own "self") in the realm of the collective unconscious, and thus only those few could gain the ability to summon Personas. Compare to how only those who can survive in the Dark Hour without getting transmogrified can have the potiential to use their Persona. I believe both instances are related to the person's strength of will, but don't quote me on that.--Otherarrow 01:15, September 18, 2011 (UTC) RE: Persona Summoned on Earth I'm thinking it's possible with an Evoker. There's the instance in Yakushima where Fuuka asks for more information in order to locate Aigis, and even if having a Persona gives you a fraction of that Persona's ability in the real world (like with Mitsuru being able to freeze people as her form of "execution"), scanning around to locate a non-Shadow seems impossible for Fuuka. (And if Mitsuru's method of freezing was actually with a Persona and not just by some ice witch powers thanks to Artemisia, then that's even more proof that Personas can be summoned outside of the Dark Hour, at least.) As for summoning outside of the TV world, Rise seems to indicate that she's unable to, but since they don't force their Personas out with guns and summon them through cards (which seems to be a more natural way of summoning), I imagine the Evoker is way to summon a Persona outside of the TV world/Dark Hour. 'Course, that's my two cents. Cixer 07:02, July 10, 2012 (UTC) :If it helps, I don't think Rise was actively trying to invoke her Persona in front of Naoto. She was just rambling drunk (even though she wasn't drunk...) I do think the P4 guys ''can summon their Personas outside the TV world, they just don't because summoning a monster in the middle of a town would probably cause a panic (this applies to the P3 guys too I guess)--Otherarrow 14:17, July 10, 2012 (UTC) :in persona1 and 2 they use there persona all the time in the real world, sees members can use them too, even without evoker. fuuka in p4a is using hers to scan around, and except for 1 time she never used a evoker if i remember correct. dont know what about p4 guys, they didnt need to. MasterOfTartarus (talk) 14:05, April 21, 2013 (UTC) : New Persona 2 sequence *Spoiler Alert* So in the new scenario in the new Persona 2: Eternal Punishment PSP game, Tatsuya does some stuff, and it becomes known that individuals who have been given Personas (as opposed to naturally awakening to them) eventually turn into demons. While I'm not sure what implications this has (had) for Strega, I feel like this sort of information is relevant to the Persona 2 section of this page. Should it be implemented just yet, though, since the spoiler is still so new? Cixer (talk) 03:33, September 21, 2012 (UTC) :Uh, can of worms time. I can look for one myself but do you have a source? « Zahlzeit 05:00, September 21, 2012 (UTC) ::I even heard that the new scenario had a part where explains the shadows in P3 and thus creating the anti-shadow weapons, but of course the latter is not even mentioned. So, if I were to choose, I would wait for a localization at least. -- Crok425 (talk) 11:23, September 21, 2012 (UTC) :::Most of the new scenario was translated somewhere (I think one of the imageboards?) and most of the info was added to the associated pages, like Shiori's. But for the life of me, I can't remember where the translated info is. And no, P3 Shadows and Anti-Shadow weapons aren't mentioned. In fact, from what I recall, while Shadows are mentioned, it's basically stuff we already knew (which is a disappointment to me)--Otherarrow (talk) 16:12, September 21, 2012 (UTC) Artificial Persona clarification So... when the term "Artificial Persona" is used, is that referring to an individual who was forcibly given a Persona, or who was forcibly awakened to their Persona? As it stands, Strega have quote-unquote "Artificial Personas," but the Personas actually do fit their corresponding Persona-users like SEES's Personas do. I thought that it was also said that everyone has a Persona, and that Persona-users simply have a special power that allows them to summon their Personas. If this is all true, isn't the term "Artificial Persona" misleading, since it would technically be their natural Persona, just summoned through artificial means? Cixer (talk) 17:12, November 10, 2012 (UTC) :Artificial Persona is the term that is used, if I recall. I don't think the exact method of artificially getting a persona is ever elaborated on in either game it appears, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Strega Personas were closer to their untamed shadows than SEES'.--Otherarrow (talk) 18:38, November 10, 2012 (UTC) :"artficially getting a persona" seems right, they are forced to use them. :they never played persona game, met philemon, had the potential or faced there shadow :im replaying persona 2 ep on psp right now(old version) and came across something interesting; :spoiler :in the kegare resarch lab, while baofu is hacking the computer he says: :"resaearch and theory on artificially creating Persona users" - guido kandori :leading me to the question if those lab is a kirijo lab, nanjo mentioned that is technology of his company :MasterOfTartarus (talk) 14:14, April 21, 2013 (UTC) ::The NWO experiments are separate from the Kirijo ones, and are further explored in the PSP version of Eternal Punishment.--Otherarrow (talk) 14:55, April 21, 2013 (UTC) :: to bad we probably dont get it, just like those dlc missions in IS :: MasterOfTartarus (talk) 14:22, April 22, 2013 (UTC) Reverting back to Shadow I want to put a mention that this did happen once in P4 Animation. Izanagi was shown to revert into Shadow Yu, if Malevolent Entity to be believed this possibly because during that incident Yu experience extreme psychological stress. I want to mention it in loss of control section but not sure how to put it, could someone please help putting the reference? thanks--Dainsleaf (talk) 14:47, May 10, 2014 (UTC) I gave it a go to give you a base to expand on if you wish XRaptor7 (talk) 16:13, May 10, 2014 (UTC) JoJo's Bizarre Adventure So now that the JoJo anime is in part 3 (and should run through part 6 at least), I've noticed that the concepts of Stands and Personas have way too much in common for Personas to not have been inspired by Stands. Would it be alright to list this in trivia? Even "inspired" isnt correct because Stands and Personas are pretty much identical, except Stands predate Persona by almost a decade, and hell, the first set of Stands from part 3 are all inspired from the Tarot. JoJo had a pretty big impact on a lot of things, so even without a direct "confirmation" its not really a stretch to link the two. Tathra (talk) 04:01, May 16, 2014 (UTC) :It's been officially admitted by Kazuma Kaneko that Atlus borrowed JoJo's concept in an interview with JoJo's author. -- Inpursuit (talk) 04:08, May 16, 2014 (UTC) ::I wouldn't say that Stands and Personas are identical (the two concepts have diverged quite a bit over the course of the two series' progression; though I'd probably note here that they had some differences in mechanics from the get go as if it was relevant) but yeah, the inspiration is pretty obvious (hell, Seimen Kongou is a pretty obvious nod to Star Platinum design wise) and yeah, Kaneko admitted it.--Otherarrow (talk) 10:21, May 16, 2014 (UTC) i keep hearing "Kaneko admitted it" but i can't find any actual proof of that. "guardian spirits" aren't an unknown concept, so the two aren't necessarily related and could just be similar by sheer coincidence. it isn't that strange for two people, unrelated in any way, to come up with the same concept. Tathra (talk) 20:37, May 31, 2014 (UTC) :So here is the full content of the interview between Kazuma Kaneda and Hirohiko Araki (Jojo's original author)http://web.archive.org/web/20091026030318/http://geocities.com/jojo2ch2000/araki4.html. I may translate them sometime later, you may use Google Translate right now. Expand to view the interview :-- Inpursuit (talk) 22:07, May 31, 2014 (UTC) that seems to be this interview (i had already found it translated), but i didn't see any kind of admission in it, just them discussing their works. in fact, this line suggests Kaneko didn't just say, "hey, lets use demons as Stands" - ::We use demons in our games, but we thought of adding a slightly different nuance to it - “What if we used them as guardian spirits?”. That’s how the concept of Persona was born. there's no doubt they were inspiration, but unless that translation i linked to is incorrect, there's no proof that they arent just the same by coincidence. Tathra (talk) 22:39, May 31, 2014 (UTC) There is absolutely no way that it is a coincidence, the executions are far too similar. Fuck, the whole Evoker thing in 3 is a direct reference to Jotaro shooting himself in the head and Star Platinum catching the bullet in Stardust Crusaders.